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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
410
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Posted - 2013.08.27 15:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like how CCP is nerfing 11 million skill points. Next year you should remove leadership skills and refund everyone that went out of their way to help a fleet.
idea of boosters = weapon timer
God forbid someone running ganglinks can't dock because 1 dumbass in his 250 person fleet aggressed a drone. Might as well make everyone suspect when one person in their fleet goes suspect. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
410
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Posted - 2013.08.27 15:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm doing it for everyone else's sake to be honest. I can always put my booster in a guardian or falcon. You see these changes come about because it's the sore losers that make the loudest complainers. If they didn't die so much then they wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Just wait, after boosts get nerfed people will be calling for logi and falcon nerfs again. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
410
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:I'm doing it for everyone else's sake to be honest. I can always put my booster in a guardian or falcon. You see these changes come about because it's the sore losers that make the loudest complainers. If they didn't die so much then they wouldn't have anything to talk about.
Just wait, after boosts get nerfed people will be calling for logi and falcon nerfs again. But if you put your booster in a guardian and he then repairs someone who is flashy, he himself will become flashy since he aided a criminal. Giving gang link boosts to a criminal is no less aiding him than supplying him with shields, cap or armour. Frankly, if he takes ammo from a fleet-member's can or uses a fleet orca to refit, I think the fleet member should get a criminal flag / weapons timer also. Supplying ammo or giving solace to a murderer does actually make you an accomplice.
In the long run people would much rather deal with a booster than 2 guardians and a falcon. What I'm getting at is people like me will still have these accounts at our disposal. If they aren't offgrid in a safer spot then they will be on grid in disposable ships to keep me alive.
When choosing the lesser of two evils its wise to know what will more greatly impact the fight.
I do agree with fleet wide aggressions if they apply to ALL SCENARRIO's. Example: Orcas in the same fleet as suicide gankers should get criminal timers. Booster gets flag then orca gets flag. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
413
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Posted - 2013.08.27 22:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Saxe Coburg Gotha wrote:What about boosting from a Titan so you get some of their special bonuses? Is that treated like a special case like the Rorqual? Or are you expected to leave the forcefield and change the entire fight into a Titan gank? Or no one thought about this because too few people do it?
Guess here those 11 million leadership skill points will turn into a burden for the titan pilot.
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We're planning to make active gang links provide a 60 second weapons timer to their owner, so that you can't just sit on a station or gate and boost all day long.
I still can't wrap my head around this. Hard to believe 11 million specialized skill points could turn into such a burden. I figured the on-grid stuff would make the null bears happy but damn, is this a witch hunt?
I figured an untanked 5,000 ehp loki with no guns on grid was bad enough. Now it needs an aggression timer for the hell of it? |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
413
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sad to see CCP trying to nerf small gang warfare so hard.
It would make sense to nerf boosts for however much larger a fleet got but damn. People have been complaining in the patch thread that massive blobs greatly benefit from "these boosts" even though we can all see it takes them 30 seconds to lock a target and a half a second to destroy the ship. There comes a point when boosts go from being effective to just being there in the fleet for looks.
As stated earlier in this thread it is rather sad that CCP is taking away all the worth a t3 booster once had. Boosts have never been game changers but when it comes down to a player/small gang taking on more numbers it gives the fleet more confidence in their objective(as leadership should). It's also nice to know you can point 10k farther or be able to tank for a few more seconds when you put yourself in a tight situation. In the end nevertheless, none of the boosts were affecting applied dps so winning the fight came down to the pilot(s). Logi, falcons, and boosts are all the same when it comes to an advantage in a fight. Although "popular" demand suggests boosts to be nerfed one can only wait for the tears when those boosting alts are put into logi's/falcons.
CCP can try and criminalize boosts all they want but as I have been saying since the beginning of time on this subject, the best players will win 99% of the time. After CCP nerfed HM for tengus and now boosts for t3's it leads me to believe that the t3 market will go to crap. They should pat their developers on the back and let them know how wrong they were when they came up with the T3. Obviously you think they failed. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
413
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Posted - 2013.08.28 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:CCP, can we have some sort of confirmation (or denial) that the eventual intention is to move warfare link bonuses to on-grid only? There's some ambiguity here.
+1 |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 16:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote: Wish that it was so. Assuming you count yourself among the best/good players, I dare you to try and kill a ship that is 30-40% smaller, has 30-40% more speed, has 30-40% more tank and applies tackle from 30-40% farther out. That is what T3's has contributed to solo/small-gang since the alts matured .. it is quite simply not possible to compete without having links in todays Eve. You can try of course, but it is rather pointless.
I'm under the assumption that you are describing a 100mn gang that is easily countered by sensor dampening ships paired with web bonused ships. Killing a ship in eve is easy no matter what boost or mods they have on. You just have to bring the proper counter to fight. Would you bring a bs fleet to fight a 100mn gang? Would you bring Amarr to fight a neut heavy fleet? Would you bring a frigate gang against a destroyer gang? Eve is easy if you use your head. Excuses that someone used boosts to beat you won't get you far in the pvp community.
Now if most understood what the tank bonus actually was then we wouldn't even discuss this part. When you add resists to your ship it takes into account what is not covered. If you have 60% resists that means 40% is not covered. Lets say your boost is applying 40% more resists. 40(not covered) x .4(your boost) is 16%. Your resist will now be 76%. If we did it your way(60% * .4) then the resists would be 84%. Huge EHP difference between 76% and 84%. In the grand scheme of things this all narrows down to 2,000-5,000 more damage taken on a killmail.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: You are right that proper blobs will generally just ignore links as the sheer damage of focused fire will kill **** regardless, but if CCP manages to solve both the application of bonuses issue (hassle to manually assign boosters as they drop) and the head-shot problem you are looking at a vastly improved medium and down theatre complete with a brand new tactical layer (ie. link killer squads).
When someone loses to a ship they believed to be inferior their first reaction tends to be "how?" A lot of the blame falls under the assumption that a person only beat them because they had boosts. I have yet to hear a valid response to this statement over the years.
If boosts were so good how come entities during the alliance tournament don't use them every match? If they were effective how come they don't win every match when using them? History has shown that they don't make a difference as many would like you to think. Boosts don't win fights.
Veshta Yoshida wrote: It is perfectly alright if people retask their alts to logi/eWar as they have a hard limit (locked targets, slots) to how much they can affect the outcome of anything and defenses against the two classes have been (are being) improved a lot with tiericide: Neuting Armageddon's, Sentry revival, Sensor HACs, fast'n'small AFs etc. In tomorrow's Eve you will need to protect special assets (links, eWar, logistics) a lot more than previously, which is a good thing as it adds weak spots to gang/fleet compositions and thus more complexity.
I'm getting the impression that you are talking in a blob sense. Boosters are the most effective in a small gang/solo scenario. Who cares how much you tank when you have 10 people shooting you? Who cares if you can point farther when the enemy fleet has more tacklers than you have mods on your ship. People that use boosters apply them against small gangs where a logi or falcon would also be extremely effective. If anything the top 50 pilots on the killboards that I have flown with just use them for point range. You know why? Because people bite off more they than can chew and try to run away. Longer point prevents that :) |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 17:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:blah blah blah all hypothetical
at the end of the day you are still 35%+ better by the use of something that is not commited to the fight at all
Get used to the fact that OGB's are getting phased out
CCP shouldn't have to phase out 12 million skill points |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 17:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Onictus wrote:On grid boosting just means that boosting is going to only be availble to the blob.
Exactly. CCP only wants boosts on grid for blobs.
CCP does not want solo/small gangs to be viable |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 18:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Because having your out of corp boosts on-grid for high-sec wars is going to be oh so risky...
Seriously, they haven't phased anything out, they're just adding some risk to it. You know, risk, that thing that gets brought up (quite rightly so) every time someone tries to make High Sec completely safe. OGBs are at almost no risk. There aren't any significant trade-offs involved, it's just "do you have them or don't you?".
From Fozzie's post (linked above) links being redundant should make Command Ships and T3s with a couple links extremely viable as part of a small fleet comp.
Who said I'm only talking about high sec wars? That makes most of your post irrelevant and off topic.
What if Im wanting to bust a gate camp in low and I need that extra speed boost to better cope with their tacklers. If I aggress and Fozzies changes go into effect, booster gets aggro timer(also on grid), then those sentry guns are gonna love my booster. 5,000 EHP isn't very much......
Risky enough to fly a loki booster: 12 mil skill points for 3 gang links 5000 EHP can only perma run AB since gang link are so cap reliant cant run gang links while cloaked defensive sub is for boosts due to command processors there is no power for guns no drone bay 600+ mil ship expensive clone for probing/sig radius
I'm sorry that in order for me to take on a 5 person gate camp I sometimes use a ship that costs more than their fleet and potentially has more skill points in leadership than they have trained individually. |
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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 20:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
This is not what Fozzie is talking about at all. You would not get PvP flagged or suspect flagged for activating gang links. What Fozzie's idea, which is not being implemented in 1.1, is that Links would trigger a 60 second weapons timer, preventing you from jumping through a gate or docking for 60 seconds.
This would not in any way trigger a combat or criminal flag.
Someone suggested that boosting someone with a combat flag should pass that along but Fozzie pointed out that this was unfeasible due to the load it would put on the server with even moderately sized fleets.
If you are jumping your boosts into a gate-camp I would be far more concerned with them being alpha'd off the field by said camp if you only put 5k EHP of tank on them.
I'm glad this was cleared up. Still can't find the server load part but it's nice to see some logic there. Much appreciated 
Cade Windstalker wrote:Congrats, sometimes I actually risk a ship worth that much using a character with over 6 times that SP total!  You could also probably actually bring a second ship on-grid and take out the camp rather easily without any boosts at all.
I don't know what you're proud about? I was simply stating that my booster indirectly helps me out while being harmless to the entire system. I'd rather just have me on the killmail.... |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 23:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:
Risky enough to fly a loki booster: 12 mil skill points for 3 gang links 5000 EHP can only perma run AB since gang link are so cap reliant cant run gang links while cloaked defensive sub is for boosts due to command processors there is no power for guns no drone bay 600+ mil ship expensive clone for probing/sig radius
I'm sorry that in order for me to take on a 5 person gate camp I sometimes use a ship that costs more than their fleet and potentially has more skill points in leadership than they have trained individually.
Sounds like a fitting and ship selection problem, to me. Maybe you should try something with some actual tank to do your boosting. I hear they make these things called Command Ships that can fit links and have a decent tank at the same time. They appear to be cheaper than your gimmick fit Loki, too.
The day they let Command ships warp through bubbles is the day I'll start using them. T3 Boosters are much more than boosters. Having probes aboard also helps me find other peoples boosters/pounces. Hard to replace a cloak.
Cloaky scout is best scout. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
414
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Posted - 2013.08.28 23:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:[quote=Mournful Conciousness] I think it shows that the gang link changes are in the correct direction. I also think it hints that even a 2% bonus per level on a T3 is on the high side.
I wouldnt say on the high side considering how long it takes to train for max t3 skills along with the millions of skill points in leadership.
Logically Command ships should be more commanding since they literally have command in their name. They are meant to give a morale like boost to a fleet like any leader. The part I still struggle with is ,figuratively speaking, why put a commander on the front lines with his troops? I understand the squad commander but the fleet or wing commander? The last time we put people of that importance up front was medieval days.... If ever.
I guess another thing Im struggling with is the actual purpose of a t3. Is its ultimate purpose to not be good at one thing but decent at everything? Kind of like a Decathlete?
Why make boosts this much weaker considering they are one of the hardest things in the game to specialize? Should there not be a bonus for accomplishing such a task that only a handful of ships can properly handle?
I'm going back to the outer level of this conversation to get the foundation again..... Kind of got off the path.
---will have to agree. You are easy to communicate with. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
415
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Posted - 2013.08.29 03:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
In a perfect world logi's, falcon's, maulus's, and t3 booster's would be seen as a game changer to most if we all went off paper statistics. BUT, news flash, we are in eve and no two situations will ever be the same. When people test major changes in real life they do sample groups or run advanced computer simulators to predict future results. The beauty of eve is that there are so many different factors involved in a fight that a guaranteed way to win isn't feasible.
Factors of a fight: who fires first velocity transversal mwd/ab boosts sig radius scan res logi ecm skills damage type used cap available sentry guns skill points Player Skill Intelligence
My point is that its impossible to declare boosts as game changers. I used the AT as an example because the whole world watched it and the only thing that stood out was domi sentry's. PL had a 10mn frigate burn perpendicular at 3,000+ m/s 50k away and the drones still hit it. That is an example of game changing.
Boosts are just another variable in the equation. No reason to touch them. If you want boosts, train 6 months for them. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
415
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
@Mournful Conciousness
I do see where your coming from because that ship does project that 5% per level to everyone in the fleet. However, everybody and their mom has access to these skills so it would only make sense for them to train leadership too if that is what their fleet is lacking. This is almost like a fleet complaining that they can't remotely repair their ships like everyone else. Well damn, train up remote repair and logistics. I believe the main reason why boosters are being singled out is because people don't want to wait for 12 million skill points in their que to be completed.
If CCP made leadership x1 skills then we would see a booster in every single fleet.
When on the topic of skill training you then begin to see why titan pilots don't want jump bridges to be nerfed. Why train an entire year for something so special that can be taken away so easily? All it takes is a bunch of 20-30 mil skill pilots spamming the forms saying "this isn't fair". Eve is about wealth and power if you really want to get somewhere. I'll admit, instead of training characters I just buy a new one. Making isk is what I'm good. You look at most of the things people are good at that complain? It boils down to losing ships and complaining.
This is like a CEO choosing an interns opinion over a 30 year vet.
@Veshta Yoshida
Fitting faction and deadspace does not all of a sudden make someone good. Garmon is a great example when it comes to the best fittings mods, ships, and boosts in the game. Look at his killboard, he still died a lot..... Nobody is perfect in Eve because nobody is perfect in life. No two scenario's can ever be repeated so it is flawed logic to nerf something that hasn't been proven to be unbalanced. Proving that something looks good on paper is not a reason to make it an outcast. Everyday underdogs prove that statistics are just that, compiled information that are easier to read. In relation to Mournful on this I too deal with gambling and racing for a living. Statistics can say all day that a specific horse will win but the realistic people know that isn't always the case. The "fastest horse on paper" doesn't always win.
@Everyone else
Boosts are not overpowered; they are extremely specialized skills that CCP made available to us. If you also crave boosts then do what everyone else did that has them. Train up 12 million+ skill points or pay 10 billion isk for a new toon along with another account subscription! Welcome to eve where only the rich, powerful, and the intelligent prevail. |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
415
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Posted - 2013.08.29 17:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
I do understand the idea of bringing boosts on-grid so they can "see what is going on". But, that still doesn't explain why they are nerfing the links all together.
A few pages back a gentlemen explained that a good FC would alpha the booster off the field ASAP. Boosts don't really make a difference during a blob fest but they help magnify a good players skills to be 1 step ahead. If you have been following since yesterday on what I have been saying then you will also notice that many other ships in this game can provide that 1 step ahead too.
I can settle for boosts being moved on-grid
Anyways my original point on this topic still stands. Boosts should be left alone when it comes to their bonus %'s. If they are put on grid, in their current fragile EHP state, that is enough risk vs reward.
Possible idea: Switch the command subsystem from defensive to offensive. This way booster t3's can't cloak but can fit better defensive mods. Better defense would allow them on grid :) |

Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
417
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Posted - 2013.08.30 06:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mine in high sec for safety. Ore may not be worth as much but you won't have to jeopardize a rorq! You'll noticate that your profits won't change much if any. |
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